Yesterday, I took a call for questions on my blog and I got a question that I felt should really be a post unto itself.
Stephen asked:
“As a male, I sometimes experience hesitation in commenting on you gal’s blogs. You, Sandi, Tanis, Suzanne, Ree, Katie, etc. The hesitation stems in large part from being perceived as some kind of weirdo, stalker/loser. Have you ever felt that way about guys commenting, and also, how does Jonathan feel about it? My rule of thumb is to try and always be a gentleman, and make sure that I frequently make note of being happily married, but still, it feels like a sensitive subject and MANY times I don’t jump in for that very reason.”
Good question. And I have heard it from a lot of men in my years online.
I cannot profess to speak for all women.
Lord, no.
I would not only never presume to do that, I imagine that many a female may read my opinions and utterly disagree. (This is the Internet after all.)
I can only speak for myself.
As for me and my opinion about male commenters on my blog?
BRING ON THE DUDES, YO.
THE MORE THE MERRIER.
(Did that sound whorish? Will you still respect me in the morning?)
Look, I love men. Some of my best friends in this world have been men. I am comfortable with them and as a whole I love, adore, and value my male readers. I do not find them lame, or losers or brutes or psycho stalkers. I do not see anything wrong at ALL with a man commenting on the blog of a woman. I wouldn’t hesitate at ALL to comment on the blog just because it is authored by a man. Heck, I not only comment on this guy’s blog but I get under tables with him at blogging conferences.
And THIS ONE WATCHES AND TAKES PHOTOS WHILE I’M UNDER THERE.
(We’re a kinky lot at times. Or maybe it’s just me? RHETORICAL QUESTION, people. :) )
My feeling is that people should feel just as free to communicate with a blogger that they enjoy reading, regardless of sex. I ADORE my (mostly) female readers as well, but there is something about a man that pipes up here in the comments that makes me look at him with a whole lot of respect for venturing into a place that is dominated by women.
I have been in places where I am one of few females in the community and often I worry and feel intimidated about speaking up.
“Will they think I am just a ridiculous, silly girl and patronize me if I just act like myself?”
“Will my opinion be brushed aside because I am a female?”
“Will one of them to come to my house at 1 am and open up this damn jar of pickles because I am freakishly weak and my husband is asleep?”
(Ok, that last one might have come more from my frustrations in making a tuna sandwich this evening.)
(While we’re on the subject can someone tell me if there is a flippin’ conspiracy in the pickle manufacturing/bottle world or something? Because EFF ALL if I can EVER get a damn jar of pickles open on my own.)
(You know, it has suddenly occurred to me that there might be a conspiracy afoot, y’all.)
(Think about it–pickles are all phallic-shaped. I am a girl. I can never access them.)
(OMG. It is a conspiracy! A MISOGYNISTIC-PHALLIC-SHAPED-PICKLE-CONSPIRACY TO KEEP PICKLES A MALE-DOMINATED CONDIMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
(I KNEW IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
(That is IT! I am boycotting all pickles from now on!)
(And I am going to take it further to illustrate my outrage and boycott cucumbers! And carrots! I am offended by your existence! In fact, ALL PENIS-SHAPED VEGETABLES ARE NOW ON MY SHIT LIST BECAUSE THEY HATE WOMEN!)
(THE (PRODUCE) MAN IS KEEPIN’ ME DOWN!!!!!)
(Watch out, Vlasic. I HAVE MY EYE ON YOU!!!)
;)
Ok, that exchange is silly in the extreme and while it is not to undermine the very real biases and mistreatments that are out there regarding women. (Seriously, don’t email me, y’all. I know that, unlike Santa Clause, misogyny is a very real thing. And it sucks.) But, I also think some of the reactions my gender has towards males is just ridiculous, frankly. I feel a lot of empathy for men that are trying their best to navigate the waters of the mommy/female blog world.
The whip of being politically correct about women can be mighty and leave one HELL of a welt if a man oversteps. And it is often used to brashly and over zealously, in my opinion.
I do not see a man opening a door for me or paying me a compliment as sexist or an indicator that I am incapable of opening a door for myself. I see it as polite and gentlemanly, and I love that. (And I have opened a lot of doors for men just to be nice. Am I castrating them because of that?)
I have been appalled at some of the male/female exchanges I have seen and really, some people just need to chill out already.
I WILL say that, yes…men have a fine line to walk when it comes to their exchanges with the opposite gender. It would be stupid, disrespectful and naive to think that you don’t need to be careful online with your relationships with the opposite sex.
Because you do.
ABSOLUTELY.
Women aren’t free of responsibility, either. They need to be careful about relationships. And they need to speak up if someone steps out of line and makes them or their significant other uncomfortable. I have had to do it, though thankfully, not often. (And I have also found that the people I would speak up to are often obscene to the point that they are censured by other commenters. Not that I recommend shirking or passing off that responsibility onto others, but it was really nice to have avoided some awkward situations thanks to protective online friends. And it is appreciated.)
The truth is, men do have to watch it.
Especially when it comes to expressing appreciation for physical characteristics of a female. Which can get a bit tricky.
I think it is just human nature to notice (and often remark) on a good looking person.
Heck, on that post where there was an (very welcomed) influx of male readers this week, one very good looking commenter had an avatar of himself in uniform (HELLO, WEAKNESS OF LORALEE), AND he *tipped his hat* to me and called me, “ma’am”. (I KNOW, RIGHT?! *Swoon*)
And I pretty much couldn’t even speak for a full 5-minutes from sheer appreciation of the awesomeness of it.
Does that make me a letch?
I hope not.
I get asked how I feel about this a lot, or I hear from many men who are worried my husband is going to want to take them outside in the ally or that I think that they are sicko perverts for saying I am a hottie. I do not mind being complimented on my looks. I get them from both men and women and both make me happy.
I mean, really, I kind of encourage it, don’t I? It’s kind of obvious I have a bit of a vain peacock inside me (sts). While I post plenty of crap-a-doodle-do photos of me online (many are in this post) I ALSO know I when I want to, I can clean up pretty darn well. And I show that side off often enough online. I don’t put profile avatars up like this to not get commentary and kudos, you know?
So, when someone says “gorgeous” or the like (either about me or the skill of the photographer) I personally love it, smile when it happens and feel all glow-like on the inside. My husband doesn’t mind it, either. The man has very, very few jealous markers in his genetic makeup. Which is probably good as I have a personality that means I would probably flirt with a lamp post. It’s just my nature. As long as you don’t proposition me, are obscene, or send my pornographic photos or Loralee Fan-Fiction that details you and me and what you’d like to do to me (yes, it happened) and it’s obvious that it’s all just harmless, nope…no problem.
AT ALL.
So, nope-I don’t mind comments on my looks or attributes.
BUT.
It pisses some women off. Or it pisses their significant others off. Or it pisses their readers off.
Or all of the above.
It greatly just depends on the individual, you know? Some women like getting whistled at while others will give you the withering stare of death and kick you so hard in the manly regions you will be fathering children out of your nostrils. There are some blogs that you go on and you can tell that they are more open to joking around, taking compliments, bantering and harmless, good-natured flirting. And there are some that you just know that it would not be appropriate.
I think a good rule of thumb is like any interaction you have with the opposite sex: Be respectful. Get to know them. See what their boundaries are. And if you want to be extra cautious or feel weird or like you have offended, email and make sure you are fine. (Note: some may not reply. Not because they think you are the devil’s seed but because they get a quadronkaton* of emails every day.)
I do not know one female blogger that is ever bothered by a respectful male commenter, even if they are prolific in their commentary and visits.
In fact, I think most of us female-types really LOVE our male readers.
I know I do.
They rock.
Now seriously, can someone open up this effing jar of pickles for me?
I’m hungry.
:)
*Not a real number. Do not attempt to use when purchasing lottery tickets.
I like your response.
We can be very uptight about comments from the menfolk around us, can’t we. But if we are secure in who we are and in our relationships with our spouse/partner then, I believe, we can accept them for what they are. Appreciation of us as a person. And that is nice. :D
Yes, yes we can be uptight. And honestly, it’s not like there isn’t ANY basis for it, but the average man?
Not that guy.
:)
I love how you handled this. Very thorough. I really think it depends on the person, the interaction, etc. — case by case basis. And for ALL online relationships I think care is warranted. It’s too easy to overstep boundaries and feel like it’s okay because it’s “not real.” Still real, people!
Now, about your pickles: I love you. You do know that if you have a bottle opener (can also use the little bottle opener hook on a conventional can opener) that you can ever-so-gently-lift the corner of the jar lid to let in a little air, release the suction, and then the lid will open right up, right? :)
So…I am feeling ALL sorts of lame that I did not know of this knife trick of which you (and many) speak.
Banging the hell out of it on a counter, yes.
Knife trick?
No.
(Did I mention mechanical reasoning has never been my thing?) :)
Amen.
My blog (5 years old today) started with a readership of 3 guys and 3 gals, so it never seemed alien to have the guys comment. Like you say here, it’s all about respect for each other-and when that happens, it’s fantastic.
I only had one guy be a disgusting prig because he didn’t like what I said. In five years.
I’d say that’s pretty awesome.
Happy blogoversary! 5 years is a damn long time online. :)
Thanks. Amalah actually has me feeling like a youngun’ in the blog world-I was reading her before I started.
I can help with the pickle jar opening. You need to put a butter knife up under the lid and pull up that pops the seal and then you can open it.
(THE PRODUCE MAN IS KEEPIN’ ME DOWN!!!!!)
ROFL! Miss Loralee, that is just wrong on so many levels.
Very well thought out, and humorous, post addressing many of the concerns real men, and even some males, have about posting on what would seem to be blog oriented to the ladies. I finally decided to do what I do, be myself, and if someone is offended, oh well. As long as I am reasonably polite and respectful, I can’t be responsible for the feelings of others.
Re pickle jars – the problem is the size of the jar and lid. Very difficult for most people to get a good grip on both. Try setting the jar on a slightly damp dishtowel so it doesn’t slide on the counter, use one hand to keep the jar from turning, and with the other hand almost flat on the top, twist. Or, try an oil filter wrench.
I don’t envy the men out there because I know most of you fall over yourselves to not offend. And it is appreciated. But hey, breathe easy here and just be yourself.
My blog is pretty dang laid back. :)
P.S. WTH is an oil filter wrench?
Why, it is a wrench for removing automotive oil filters! (geez, and we let women vote!)
Check here for a variety: http://www.google.com/search?q=oil+filter+wrench&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
and
http://www.google.com/images?q=oil+filter+wrench&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1270&bih=656
Think about it – they are made to provide the leverage to spin off a 2 3/4 inch or larger round object from threads. Without crushing it.
Of course, there are also a variety of jar lid wrenches/tools.
Dude. I had zero idea they made wrenches specifically for that. But then, I would probably open my trunk to check my oil.
(KIDDING.)
(Maybe.)
My first reaction was to raise an eyebrow and think, “really?”, then I recalled that one of my former students, who is into some unfortunate things, enlightened me about something called Rule 34. Which would explain this. My sister, who is into the ComicCon kind of things in a big way, explained to me that there are thousands of such publications devoted to such things between Star Trek/Star Wars & whatever casts. Which may well explain why productivity in America is at such a low point, and why 27% of young adults are too grossly out of physical conditioning to even attempt initial military training.
Anyhow, more importantly, give the pickle jar a light tap on the side of the metal lid (LIGHT TAP!!! Don’t bash it with a hammer, or it will open but not in a neat and orderly way!), turn the jar upside down, hold the lid with a damp washcloth or one of those rubber lid-taker-off thingys, then wrap your arm around the jar itself to give you some leverage to break the seal.
Oh, fan fiction is LEGENDARY. I am blown away at some of the stuff I find online. (My husband made this one into a poster. I just sat there and went, “UHHHHH???” http://loraleeslooneytunes.com/2010/06/22/weve-all-had-days-like-this/)
And yes, I got something very, very bizarre. It was an extremely graphic email sent by a guy that was a problem a long time ago. I’ve really only had issues with 2, so out of thousands of readers that is not bad.
My solution to the pickle jar thing thus far has been to just pound the hell out of it on the counter. (Very grown up, I know)
What struck me is that it was in narrative form. And really, his prose was well written. Just disgusting and hugely offensive.
Totally off subject – I just saw that one of my favorite actors, Tony Curtis, died yesterday.
Actor Tony Curtis combined good looks, brash confidence and a streetwise rough edge into one mesmerizing package.
But Curtis, who died Wednesday night at his Las Vegas-area home of cardiac arrest at 85, proved that he was much more than a handsome face and won respect in Hollywood over the course of his long career.
Another of the great ones gone.
Him AND Eddie Fisher in a week?
Damn.
They are dropping like flies and it makes me sad.
Does that picture make me look fat? Or is it just that I’m right next to that gorgeous, slim creature?
Time for fatboy to go on a diet.
Lou, you don’t look fat to me, and HELLO…remember how I had not slept, showered or had one ounce of makeup or hair style at breakfast that day? I was about to go all ‘coma’ on everyone. :)
You are the most excellent man and you take one HELL of a photo.
Darn, does that mean I should keep that comic book (sorry, illustrated fantasy novel) I made about us to myself and you don’t want a copy?
I WAS TRYING TO PROTECT YOUR IDENTITY, DUDE!!!!
Hahahahahaha!
So kidding. ;)
I love Stephen! ….and lceel. I am lucky enough to have both of these awesome men read my words and honestly care about me and my life. How lucky am I?
And I LOVED this post!
Right? They are true gems. (As are you!)
Thanks Sandi! Glad your man made it home. :-)
What the — A knife under the lid to break the seal? Where has this tip been all my life??
I find it ironic that I am off to get a massage (chronic back/neck pain) and that I always try to go to a male therapist. I am of the “you could use a jackhammer and I would probably like more pressure” types and I have yet to have a female have the hand strength.
Sometimes you just need a guy, yo. :)
I’ll be back to chat with y’all laters!
And… most of my friends are dudes.. though hardly any of them comment on my blog. It only gets stalker-y when you look me up and show up on my doorstep :-p
Dudes can rule as friends. (And um, they can also be lacking but that is ok! Because girls rule as friends, too!)
I’ve only had girls show up randomly on my porch. But they came with chicken noodle soup and cookies so I was down with it. :)
Yeah, this guy showed up with nice new speakers in response to some post about mine going out. I was married. And I lived at my in-laws. Awkward.
In case it needed to be pointed out, I’m a guy (yeah, seeing the name “David” wasn’t enough of a clue, right? It’s just behind Pat and Chris on the uncertainty scale).
I comment quite frequently here at Camp Loralee, and also chat with her offline. Even on the phone once or twice. We’ve never been in the same place at the same time, so she has no complimentary or incriminating photos of the two of us together. Still, we can dream, right Loralee?
Anyway, just because others might call our esteemed hostess a Mommy-blogger doesn’t mean much to me. She’s a blogger who happens to be very smart, VERY funny, has a wildly different situation and life history and life experience from me, and by the way, she happens to be somewhere between adorable and hawt.
I’m neither adorable nor hawt. That’s more my fault than hers, don’t you think? I comment or don’t comment based on the post’s content, the conversation, the time I have available and whether the competing voices in my head are particularly loud or aggrieved on that day.
And I’m ok with that. If she’s talking about girly girly stuff that’s totally out of my interest zone, I’ll probably keep my mouth shut (ok, I probably won’t finish reading the post…sorry, but it’s true). Other times, like now, or when the topic gets closer to my wheelhouse, I’ll pipe up. My ego is waaaaay too healthy and ingrained for me to care about whether anyone else (man or woman) is looking at my comment going “David? That’s a guy, I’m sure of it. What the hell is HE doing here?”.
You know why? No offense to anyone else who’s hanging out here, but when you come right down to it, the only person who REALLY matters to me is Loralee, and I know she luffs me to the moon and back. To quote Forrest Gump, “And that’s all I have to say about that”.
Dude, you realize that I am going to have to call you “Pat” at LEAST once now, right? :)
And?
WE WILL MEET ONE DAY. I have faith!
I loved that you piped up here. I love it when you pipe up here in general. (And no…do not mind if you don’t read the whole thing, dude. We cool. :))
So, Forrest…will you come mow my lawn for me???? ;)
P.S. It’s good to realize that someone recognizes that I am totally important. :)
(So kidding but I just loved how you said that. AND yes…I DO luffs you to the moon and back, you. xo)
For me, here’s the deal. I like honest, smart, witty, well informed, diverse, funny, creative, givers not takers, type of people. There is no better place to find those people in abundance, than online. Online relationships shouldn’t replace real-time interactions, but rather enhance our lives by expanding our perspectives.
Seeing that women make up approximately half of the people I described above, why would I not want to cultivate interaction with the gals. I see no reason to cut in half the number of quality human beings who meet my criteria for friendship.
But I am careful. I think of it this way: Before I hit “submit” on any blog, I should be comfortable that every word I post would pass the smell test with my wife. It’s one reason you won’t ever find me commenting on gal’s physical attributes. Other than this one time right here. All the different women bloggers who I follow, are stunningly beautiful. Every one beautiful in their own way. It’s just how I feel about women who meet the criteria I listed above. I hate how society puts so much pressure on women to conform to a specific physicality to be considered pretty by all the other beautiful people. Those beautiful people are ugly and I unfollow them real quick.
Lastly, I have always thought that the most amazing, powerful experience for humans is maternal instinct. A mother’s love for her children. When The Babe became the mother of my sons, she changed. It was incredible. Amazing to witness. She became whole. I’ll admit to whining a little about being knocked off my “I’m the studliest sexual god in the universe and the most worthy of her adoration” pedastal, but hey, God is the one who set the whole deal up. Am I going to have the audacity to tell God that he screwed that one up? I don’t think so. It validates my beliefs about maternal instinct every time I read a mommy blog. That’s a good thing.
p.s. does this mean I have permission to go stir up all the Mommies on the internet? :-)
I like this one. thumbs up!
I love this. :)
I love that a majority of my friends live in a box. Where I live there is not a lot of diversity and well…I hate that.
Enter: The Internet.
I think caution is good, but don’t be so cautious you get your knickers in a knot, you know?
*Not saying that you call them knickers. Hee
Lastly, I have always thought that the most amazing, powerful experience for humans is maternal instinct. A mother’s love for her children.
I think that is a species survival instinct kicking in. If it didn’t I don’t think many would make it through the first year. Little hellions would be strangled or something. There is a HUGE amount of work and frustration in raising the average yard ape to useful size.
“There is a HUGE amount of work and frustration in raising the average yard ape to useful size.”
Love that! So very true, but I never, ever thought of it that way!
Chuckle…I do as well.
And yup, there is something fierce and protective about your own kids. Makes you put up with a WHOLE lot that might drive you over a balcony otherwise.
All good to know, Loralee. If She Who Must Never Be Named had had such an attitude, things would have gone a LOT better. LOL However, my g/f thinks very much like you on these ideas, so life is much better these days. Tell your husband for me that you’re a keeper. I know he already knows that, but it’s always good to compliment the hubby of the blogger from time to time. :)
Now, as for pickles. . . .Joe’s idea of the filter wrench is a bit off kilter. . .I think he had forgotten he wasn’t on Lex’s site and was embarassed to suggest the PROPER tool (tongue firmly in cheek, Joe). Here’s what you really need. . . .for when hubby isn’t around.
http://www.surlatable.com/product/id/125173.do?affsrcid=Aff0001&mr:trackingCode=DE62AEDC-D781-DE11-B7F3-0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA
And it wasn’t even off-color. ROFL
LOL, glad you have a better woman with you!
And, my husband readily acknowledges that I am a grand thing to have on his arm. (As long as we are not discussing politics. ;) )
I’m usually pretty good at remembering where I am. And not at all off, or out of, kilter. I didn’t see the jar lid gadgets until about 30 years ago. And those looked a lot like much older oil filter wrenches.
Look at the micro plane zesters that have become so popular in the past 15 years or so. The first models of those on the market looked exactly like Craftsman or Stanley micro planes. Mandolines and V-slicers? More construction tools – a modified block plane.
I can see it now, someone whining to her husband that she needs some way to get thin, even slices of something. He gets tired of listening to her and tosses his plane to her “There! Use that and shut up!” (at which point he ended up having to fix his own dinner for the next two weeks)
Hey Joe. I was pullin’ your leg a bit.
And the original of those micro-zesters (I forget the manufacturer) was a tool originally sold to rasp away foam cores when making Long-EZs. The wives of builders kept stealing them from the tool chest to ‘grind’ nutmeg for coffee, of all things. The manufacturer kept getting so many requests from cooks and chefs that they began to package them for cooking supply stores too. And thus it began. . . . :)
Yeah, I knew you were pulling my leg, that is why I gave a serious answer (Yeah, you can say it – “JERK!” one of the small rewards I live for.)
One thing I noticed about the zesters – the ones for food were about 20% more expensive than the ones sold in tool stores. Same thing, but a different name. I bought mine at Sears or Home Depot. That has since changed, they are pretty much the same price either way.
I totally use my microplaner for everything (including microplaning my poor fingers. Ouch)
It’s a dream for fresh nutmeg.
Once we were going to go to a reenactment, and I ended up working late. My wife wanted to know what she could do to help out. We were going to bring a cucumber and onion salad for the potluck. I told her to use the mandoline to slice he cukes. She was going along just fine, getting the hang of it. Then…Then…THEN…she got cocky, didn’t pay attention, and took about 1/32 off the tips of two fingers. Just enough to hurt like the dickens and make her a bit shockey.
Every time I hear or think Long-EZs I think of John Denver over the ocean at Monterrey. :-(
Sad day.
OMG. John Denver was my first concert. I LOVED him. Cried my eyes out that day. :(
And possibly sleep on the couch. ;)
I get a few male commenters and wish I got more! I do think it’s funny how they often point out they’re married. I think you can enjoy what someone writes without hitting on them. But now it makes me wonder if I should mention my hubs when I comment on guy blogs?
They are loads of fun, no?
And really, no one thinks twice about a woman commenting on a man’s blog. They usually never assume a female is trolling for men online (unless she is obvious and/or her avatar is basically her girl parts hanging out all over the place with her tongue out. Although, that is usually also shrugged off as p*rn spam) There is such a double standard with this (and one I have a beef with).
Miss Amy, Ma’am? Is that an open invitation?
Oh yay – Stephen mentioned me. I love him – he’s one of my favorite readers/commenters. He has never, ever, not even once, offended me with anything. Only the men who email asking for boob photos offend me … because I only send THOSE to redneck mommy. She’s special! : )
Wait…TANIS IS CHEATING ON ME WITH YOU!!!!!
Sigh. That’s it. We’re all just going to have to be all sister wives now. ;P
hee hee hee
Suzanne, the feelings are mutual. BTW, did you check out the shooting sticks?
Loralee – we can be sister wives, but first you will have to show me your boobs and next I will need Tanis’s permission to show you mine.
(How many people do you think are reading this and taking it seriously?)
Stephen – I will email you tonight. I’ve had the week from hell and I’m sorry I haven’t gotten back to you! xo
Man…I only ever make out with Tanis. No wonder she moved on to you!!!!!!!!
(AND hopefully? No one is taking it seriously at all because HELLO! :) )
Let’s just say I’m glad you didn’t get under that table with me while wearing that ninja getup.
Yeah, I love a woman in a stealthy shogun era assassin uniform.