The Suleman Octuplets, The Duggars, The McCaugheys, and Jon & Kate plus 8: My opinions on them, multiples, fertility doctors and I may even go into my feelings about lip collagen, who knows?

For those who do not have television, Internet, or for those that DO but have been in a coma, living under a rock, or holed up in a hotel on their honeymoon having the most intense, carefree and awesome sex they’ll ever have again in married life, I am going to fill you in on the news and controversy that has occurred this week surrounding Nadya Suleman.

Suleman is a 33-year-old, single, unemployed woman who has been on injury/disability payments since 1999, and just gave birth to octuplets in California. Before giving birth to an additional 8 children, she already had 6 kids ranging in age from 2-7 and all of them were born using in vitro fertilization (IVF) made possible by the same sperm donor and same fertility doctor. When undergoing IVF she and her doctor decided to implant all 6 embryos that were available, even though the recommended limit for her age is 2 embryos. All 6 of the embryos attached and then 2 of the embryos divided into twins and a total of 8 babies were born.

Let me give you a moment to process that information.

You still with me?  Good.

This situation appalls me.

And I do not appall easily.

(This is long, so click “Continue reading” to, ya know…continue reading. Hey, it’s a wide topic and I’m in a ranty-rant-rant mood.)

I have had a LOT happen in my life. I also have some big “issues”. It’s not like I keep this a secret or anything, people. I mean, just look at the title of this blog for Pete’s sake. Considering some of the life choices I have made and continue to make, I try pretty hard not to judge people.

(Ok, that isn’t true, I do plenty of judging but it is usually more along the lines of, “Um…What the hell is up with your hair? Did you do that DELIBERATELY? And if so…WHY? FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, WHY?!” type of thing, instead of making moral judgments on people that don’t live and/or think like me.  Which is a damn good thing as I think that there is maybe 1% of the population that fits in this category.)

But when it comes to judging in general?  Not usually my cup of tea. Probably because I live in THE LAND OF JUDGING THEE AND THY NEIGHBOR and have had plenty of it heaped on my head. (Some justified, some not.) so I feel especially sensitive to it.

Except, um, LATELY. I don’t know what is up with me having all these opinions about the lives of people I don’t know, but for whatever reason, I HAVE THEM this week.

I’m a judgy, judgy Judy lately.  (I will think about how this sits with me later. For now, I don’t know how much I care, frankly. I’m in kind of a bitchy, anxious and worried mood. Have I mentioned that???)

The more I find out about the octuplets, the more staggered I become. The icing on the cake was Suleman’s interview with The Today Show.

(I will cop to being shallow and admit some of my reactions may come from her appearance. She is…pretty, but in a freaky “I have had way too much plastic surgery and lip collagen injections” sort of way. Which can pretty much be chalked up to my petty judgy self as I described above. Although, excessive cosmetic surgery can signify some big mental issues. And really, is there anything more painfully abnormal to look at than Goldie Hawn First Wives Club-esque lips that have been filled with so much collagen they barely move? It’s a pet peeve, I suppose.)

Look, I do not believe that we should go all China on people and try to legally regulate how many children people choose to have. That is an extremely personal decision. I am not “Anti-big families”, either. I come from the LAND OF HUGE FAMILIES (It is also the land of Jello and aforementioned judging. It’s also full of pretty great people. The skiing is awesome, too.) so I am rather used to it. Hell, I am the youngest of 6, which is monstrously huge in some parts of the country. AND, I’m a twin.

But I am not pro-litter, either.

I am definitely anti helping people deliberately have litters by irresponsibly using medical technology.

I have ranging thoughts and emotions regarding the famous “multiples” that have come into the world in the last decade.

I will state that I do not give parents flack for choosing not to do selective elimination when they are faced with a high number of fetuses.  So, I am not going to make that part of my discussion, though others are free to feel and say what they will about it.

I also want to say that there are people who feel that a lot of the objection stems from people being jealous. Um, I am not jealous of ANY of the situations I am about to talk about.  I am struggling having 2 kids and one on the way. If I had 14 children I would suck at it. A good meal would most likely be me dumping 20 cans of Spaghetti-O’s in a crock pot on the floor, hucking a bunch of plastic forks at all of them and then RUNNING FOR MY LIFE, so it is a damn good thing I am not at the helm of a big family. Moms who have big families and care for them well deserve fracking MEDALS.

So, see…I don’t care how many book deals, houses, etc. anyone would throw at me for having a big family, I am NOT going to be jealous of how incredibly difficult that must be.

I.would.go.fracking.CUCKOO.

So, let’s discuss some of the more well known multiples.

The McCaughey septuplets. They had one child with the help of fertility treatments, wanted another and ended up with 7 for a total of 8 kids. They have a yearly interview and have done some TV spots and product endorsement. They have accepted free gifts and I believe their home was built and paid for by donations and that all their children have their college educations provided by the state of Iowa.

Eh, that doesn’t really bother me.  Maybe this is because I have formed the opinion after reading their interviews and how they have come off over the years as people that just don’t strike me as remotely greedy.

I think that if people want to be generous, cool. I think that they were thrown a hell of a curve ball and did what they had to to keep their family going at the time. They seem to accept less and less over the years. They turn most interviews and things down at this point and largely keep to themselves. I think that they have done a good job as parents and have managed to walk the thin line of needing to provide for such an instantly large family and benefiting from their instant fame to provide for their kids and protecting their privacy.

Jon and Kate Gosselin: Jon & Kate plus 8-Their story is similar to the McCaughey’s but they had fertility treatments and had twins, wanted another and had sextuplets. They have a weekly TV show on TLC and this, along with speaking and books on their family is how they earn their income. I watch this show. The kids are ADORABLE. (Ok, there is Maddy, who would drive me freaking insane to raise, but that is a whole nother topic). Jon and Kate are amusing and banter and it’s a highly entertaining show.

A lot has been said about their greediness, expectations and how they have virtually cut most of their families out of their lives, usually because of monetary issues.  But all of that is also speculation as the family doesn’t ever answer direct questions like those.

Kate can drive me crazy. But then, I think if I had 8 children, I would be rocking in a corner and drooling, so again, to each his own. Unlike the McCaughey’s I do get “The greedy expectation” vibe from the Gosselin’s.  They just moved into a 1.4 million dollar house.  Jon got free hair transplants and Kate got a tummy tuck and went on a first class vacation to Maui to renew their wedding vows with their family.

Personally, while I kind of go, “Huh?” at some of it, I would also most likely take someone up on the offer to give ME things like that for free. I’m just being honest. Also, they have 8 kids and lived for years in a house that was WAY too small for them, so I really don’t begrudge those little ones some actual space to run and explore and be kids.

I would give it to EVERY kid on the planet if I could.

I think that they probably exploit their kids lives a little too much but at the end of the day I also think that they are pretty responsible with what they have been given and responsible people in general and are doing what they think is best for their family and situation.

The Duggars: Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar just had their 18th child and their eldest was just married. 

My main reaction to Mrs. Duggar having eighteen children is an earth shattering SCREAM of empathy from my uterus that makes it want to curl up, die, fall out, and then lay there twitching on the floor like a freshly executed eel.

My second reaction to the Duggars having eighteen children is getting skeeved out beyond reason thinking of Jim Bob and Mrs. Duggear doing the nasty enough times to produce that many spawn. (Something about wide hallways and a hotdog being tossed down it is coming to mind, but that would be bad and wrong of me to repeat.)

Look, the Duggars seem like nice people with good intentions. I think for having that many they have done a very good job. I don’t want to hunt them down and exterminate them like many on the internet. While I don’t believe they are dependent on welfare or anything, it bothers me that their home is tax exempt because it has been declared a church. I didn’t know you could even do that. Can I create “The Loralee Church of Diet Coke?” it would only have a congregation of one, but I can assure you, I am EXTREMELY devout. So, yeah…it bothers me a little. Of course, it also bothers me that all of the girls sport a look-alike-hairdo to Mrs. Duggar which freakishly resembles polygamy hair.

(Again, with the superficial judgments, huh? But in my defense, I will state that this hairdo is sported a lot in my state and having polygamy hair is a red flag that the person and I are probably not going to get along. Now watch-I have probably pissed off The American Polygamy Hair Association or something just now. It would be my luck.)

They seem to have a busy home of harmony that is extremely well-organized. They have a buddy system where the elder children have daily responsibilities to their younger siblings like feeding, bathing, clothing, etc.

I am not going to insist that the Duggars or anyone else with or in a big family “cannot possibly be happy” despite their insistence that they are, because I have heard that more times in my life than you could count.  I hate to keep dragging Utah and religion into it but I have heard so many Mormons state that people without the truth of the church in their life cannot possibly “really” be happy and that is WRONG.  I have also heard equally vocal opinions from non-Mormons who do not believe anyone in Mormonism is really happy and that is WRONG, TOO. Just a bit of background of where I am coming from.

My biggest beef with the Duggars is that even if they are the best parents in the world, I think that puts an AWFUL lot on those kids. They are pretty much mini-surrogate parents from the time they are born.  I just think that it way too much responsibility and there just is not enough time to simply be a kid.  They cannot remotely get the kind of attention or one-on-one time from their parents they deserve.  (And yes, I realize that can happen in single child homes as well, but for now, I’m talking about The Duggars).

I realize that responsibility is good for kids. I fear my kids don’t have enough of it and they will end up being 30, unemployed, living in my basement playing unending games of D&D and subsisting on a diet of Chocolate Yoohoo and Funyons.  But I also think there is such a thing as too much responsibility and that the Duggar’s might be crossing that line with their children.

You don’t have to populate the planet on your own, Jim Bob. We know you are virile and manly and your wife has good childbearing hips.  Your place in natural selection is secure.

The Suleman Octuplets.

In another disclaimer-this is a very fresh story and I am reacting to it. I realize more information will come out, etc. and that will highly impact my views and options.

FOR NOW, THOUGH…The more I hear about this story, the more I go “WTF?!”.

I do not understand it. AT ALL.  In the interview, Ms. Suleman stated that her one goal in life was to be a mother because she was an only child from a very dysfunctional family.  A family that she and her 14 children are going to be living with because she is single and unemployed.  There is very little about this woman or her situation that indicates that she has what it takes to be an adequate mother of 14 children.

It seems that she is trying to fill the hole in her soul and life by filling it up with children, and I have to strongly disagree with that.  I totally cop to having the same issues and trying to fill those holes with other people and relationships, but that is with consenting adults, not children who have no choice in the matter.

In fact, one of the reasons that we waited as long as we did after Matthew died to have another baby is because I wanted to make SURE that I was not trying to subdue the grief at my loss with another baby. It just isn’t a good situation when that happens.

I do not doubt that she loves her children.  However, she seems very, very, very out of touch with the reality of the situation.  She says she is “confident she can provide for them” when she gets her degree.

WTF?

Ummmm….YOU HAVE 14 FLIPPPING CHILDREN! Good luck being able to have time to PEE or BLINK let alone go to school and be able to do the hours of studying it requires.

She says she has never been on welfare and never will. I am not sure what she considers the $168,000 of disability she’s collected, but that is a question for another day. She has shopped for PR agents and shopped interviews and has come off about as poorly as possible in the media.

Unlike a lot of people, I am not getting the vibe that she is DRIVEN by money, fame and greed as some suggest. I think that she has some big issues and I have soooooo many problems and worries about how the hell those kids are going to turn out. Memo to the mom: It’s not hard to hold each infant 45-minutes a day when someone else is watching your other 6 children and the 8 babies are in a hospital with multiple nurses for each baby.

I wonder how she afforded so many IVF treatments? It’s something some people save and scratch for YEARS to accomplish.  And what about the cost of her medical treatment?

I am a high risk pregnancy that has been declared a pre-existing condition that is not covered by my insurance and I am making peace with thte fact that the cost of this birth will likely mean I will never own my own home.

The birth of 8 children is estimated at 1.7 MILLION DOLLARS.

Who pays for that?

It’s just further illustration that the woman isn’t seeing reality if she really feels she has never benefited from a handout. My husband doesn’t think this woman should get a dime from anyone, government or private citizen. I can see how appealing that sounds given that she was so deliberate in her actions, but I disagree to a point.

Why?

The kids.

I can’t help it.  I am horrified at how it all went down but the fact is they are HERE.  Why punish them? They are already going to have a tough enough time as it is.  Call me a bleeding heart or whatever, I just hope that they have as many needs met as they can. However that happens.

I just never want this to happen deliberately again.

I have a huge issue with the doctor in this situation.

Every single thing about this situation seems like irresponsible medicine.  I feel like the woman obviously has some issues and god knows, I of all people know how HARD it can be to see the forest for the trees when you are in the midst of your own neuroses. THAT IS WHY DOCTORS HAVE A GREAT RESPONSIBILITY TO BE RESPONSIBLE EVEN IF THEIR PATIENT IS NOT.

ESPECIALLY THEN.

What doctor inseminates a person with this history THAT MANY TIMES?  She has such a severe back disability she gets government payouts for it, but her body can handle a huge amount of births? Seriously?? What kind of doctor would deliberately implant 6 embryos in a 33-year-old when the recommended limit is TWO?  When they know she has SIX children already? I know it was a gamble and that it is a “fluke” that ALL of them took, but STILL…

And I know, I KNOW what a touchy, delicate area this is and yet I am still so appalled about it.

Unfit people have kids ALL THE FREAKING TIME.  TONS of them. It is beyond our control. Now, how they are treated AFTER they are born is somewhat regulated and I agree with that. The actual conception and delivery process is pretty much left up to the individual and I can see why.

THE QUESTION: When you are giving someone the ability to have children when they could not otherwise, does or doesn’t that hold you to some higher standard or to some level of accountability?

As I said, I am loathe to DICTATE how many children people have or their motives, etc. If doctors can randomly decide who has the right to have children and who doesn’t it can make for a very sticky situation.  Someone could turn away lesbians, black people, Atheists, Orthodox Jews or kooky Mormons or left handed people just because they disagree with their lifestyle and because they can.

I GET THAT.

I also get that there are doctors and pharmacists out there being sued for refusing to provide abortions, contraceptives and the morning after pill. Personally I feel it is LUDICROUS that a doctor could be sued provide non-life saving, elective procedures against their conscience.

This is what floors me; people get turned away for “elective” treatments ALL THE TIME.  People rant and rave about the cosmetic surgeon that did god-knows-WHAT to Michael Jackson’s face and their medical irresponsibility.

I talked to quite a few people before writing this post who have had in vitro and none of them had to undergo what I had to for both of my elective surgeries. I had to have a psych evaluation for my gastric bypass and was asked very blunt probing questions about my motivations when I had my “Magical boobies” surgically “reclaimed”.

If a doctor can turn away someone who they feel has an unrealistic expectation about plastic surgery are you really telling me that a fertility clinic is under zero obligation to take into account what situation the kid THEY ARE MEDICALLY MAKING HAPPEN is born into?

Getting bigger, perkier boobs and having ass fat injected into your face* gets more review and consideration than a kid being born? SERIOUSLY?

Still, I do realize what a highly sensitive, tricky and gray area this all is.  And to be CLEAR: I do not believe that what happened should be deemed illegal, but I absolutely feel that it should be held as unethical (and highly at that, IMO) by the medical community.  I think that the board of medicine should at least review this situation to determine exactly what went down and why.

As I go down my thoughts and feelings about multiples and my feelings and how they range so radically, I find that most of it comes down to intent.  I cut the families of these huge families that were caught of guard by the way their embryos divided and attached with a lot more sympathy than those that have deliberate purpose producing hhhhhuuuuuugggggeeee families. ESPECIALLY if they feel they deserve a hand out because of it or the children are the primary source of income.

I also feel differently about large families with adopted children in them. That could be a post unto itself, but I don’t see it the same way. Those parents are giving kids that would be in foster care their whole lives a chance.

I feel way less resentment of a family that can take care of itself. Or I don’t mind them receiving help if it seems that is “just the way the cookie crumbled and I was unwilling to kill any of my fetuses once they attached”. It’s much different than “I am going to have a huge amount of children I cannot afford on purpose and you are going to help me subsidize it”.

It makes a big difference to me.

Anyway, this was long as hell and pretty harsh and opinionated for me and quite frankly, I know that a lot of my judgments could be turned right around and used on me.  I knew I was high risk, and yet we are having another child.  I have been on Medicaid to have children when we were self employed. I am not the world’s best parent. I have bought and paid to have my bosoms surgically reclaimed (and do NOT regret it).  I have made life choices that would have Dr. Phil muttering “ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!” and that would probably have me stoned in some areas of the world.

All that said, yeah. I still have these opinions. I’m appalled and confused and CONFLICTED.

I’m just bitchy enough today to voice it.

So, what about you?  What are your thoughts? (Please, no death threats. I had quite enough of that when I blogged about that douchebag from Wife Swap, m’kay?)

P.S. *No. I did not have ass fat injected into my face. I just said that, ya know, for dramatic emphasis. Because that is how I roll, people.