“Hi, my name is Loralee, and I am grey.”
Seriously, there should be a support group for gray people like me. I’m a moderate politically, I waffle about things from religion to my opinion on skinny jeans, I can see both sides of just about every story, I have a hard time saying “THIS is what I believe!”.
In other words, I’m a fence sitter.
I don’t know how or why I am this way, I just am. Maybe I am a coward. Maybe I am lazy. Maybe I just have too much empathy, who knows? One thing I do know is that people don’t care much for fence sitters.
I don’t talk about my feelings about religion a whole lot on this blog. I already feel weird and well, this does tend to make me weirder as far as most of the world is concerned. I am really, really thinking this may be a very bad idea, but since this week is going so swimmingly and I am a bit of a masochist, here we go.
I mentioned that my son, Christopher was baptized this weekend. Yes, he was. With my blessing. With his father’s blessing. This has caused confusion with many people, mainly because I haven’t clarified my situation in awhile. I am still confused about a lot of it. If I don’t have it sorted out, how could you all?
I am inactive from the LDS church, as is my husband. It happened after my son died. I am not going into detail about it. It is very personal and long and this post is already a freaking novel. My children go to church every week with their grandparents. Because they want to. Frankly? I don’t have a problem with it.
While I do have issues, they are more with God than with bitterness towards the LDS church. I do not want my issues to be my children’s issues. At least as much as possible. My husband and I see eye-to-eye on church and our kids. It is a different scenario when one feels strongly about faith and the other has equal conviction with an opposing belief and you are trying to make a decision like this regarding children that you both share. I feel so bad for both parties in that situation.
And therein lies the rub.
In general, a lot of people who have left the church (Or religion in general) want me to think it is silly, ridiculous or are completely non-respectful of people who believe in it. I have been told that allowing my children to go to church is akin to the grooming programs street gangs use to indoctrinate children. So many have zero tolerance and amazing zeal against it. my very anti-Mormon grandmother, included.
I think that is simply an arrogant attempt to indoctrinate as well, just for another point of view. I can usually see their arguments and I can definitely understand how they have often been driven to feel the way that they do. I have objection to things in Mormonism, I have been hurt by it, so I get a lot of what they are saying. I just do not think that everyone who is LDS or religious are simply mindless sheep that are being led along because they are too witless to think for themselves. I have seen people take great comfort, joy and happiness in devout following of a religion. I respect that and am more than a little envious, actually.
That said, I get a whole lot of stuff from the other side-how I should be a better example to my children, how confusing it must be for them, how our eternal salvation is at risk, how I can only be “Really” happy as a Mormon. I have felt the subtle judgments (Some not so subtle) the slights, the sorting that goes on in the mind when people see my sleeveless shirts or cup of coffee and I am put in the “Other” category.
I think it is equally arrogant that there can only be just one way to happiness. I do not believe that Mormonism is for everyone. I don’t think that Christianity or Deity is for everyone. To be so simplistic to think that smoking can sum up a persons worth or to not allow my children to play with yours because I don’t go to church. Still, I can see and understand and believe that yes, many people are genuinely happy as faithful Mormons or in a devout religion. There is doctrine unique to Mormonism that I fervently believe in, so I get that as well.
Although I am addressing the extremes of opinion of this argument, I see both sides. I relate to both sides. I have compassion for both sides. I find it interesting that both sides are determined to see the other as incapable of geniune happiness.
(Oh, and for the rest of you? You people who just say “Dude. Whatever. Just be yourself and be happy.” You are appreciated.)
My moral compass might as well be a Twister spinner for all intents and purposes. Maybe I’ll go back, maybe I won’t. As for my kids? I am trying my best to give them love and support in whatever path makes them happy. I want them to have enough exposure and confidence that they can be comfortable and happy if they believe in a God and in a religion. To be open to that possibility.
I also want them to be raised to know that people who don’t believe the same way or who consume coffee or smoke can be just as good, just as happy as any Mormon that they know. To see people that are different as equal, not just tolerate and love them “In spite” of not being religious. If they chose a different path then that, they are ok and fine and lovely just as they are. To know that they can choose for themselves and that I love them and accept them no matter what.
Maybe that’s not possible or wrong, dunno. I’m doing my best people, my very best. I can only work with what I have to work with, ya know? I’m ok with how I’m doing, actually.
So, maybe I am finally planting my feet down and being decisive about something for a change. I think I am just fine being a fence sitter for now. For one, I’m developing a fairly nice backbone sitting here because I have to balance both sides without falling off. Plus, the air up here is clear, it smells nice, and I have a pretty great view up here on this fence.
In fact, from where I’m sitting I can actually tell you which side the grass is greener on. If you want to know this amazing bit of information, I take Visa, Master Card, and Large Bills. I’ll need it for the huge-ass order of paper bags I’ll be using to try and not hyperventilate when I open my email in the morning.
Nice post. Personally I think it just means you are empathetic and that’s okay by me. I like people who can understand where I’m coming from so I try to be that way myself, and appreciate people like you who can see things more than one way, too. And I have to say, Mormon or not, I think you’re fab and will always be willing to be your friend. *I’m sure that will come across sounding terribly sappy, but I really do mean it.*
What a terrific post! I admire your ability to take a stance!
I had a neighbor several years ago who was a devout Jehovah’s Witness. She kept trying to ‘convert’ me. (I am Lutheran). I finally told her: ‘Listen. I respect your devotion to your church. However, I believe in another path. I feel that each person is on their own individual path to heaven, or salvation, or whatever they call it. We are all traveling in different vehicles, on different roads, but we are all basically trying to reach the same place.’
She never discussed her religious views again with me. Whether that meant she understood what I was trying to say, or she just gave up, I don’t know.
Loralee, you go girl!
Dude. Whatever. Just be yourself and be happy.
In all seriousness though, I think it took a lot of guts to write this, ’cause I know the kinds of comments you’re going to get. I can actually relate… that Catholic hard-wiring never truly comes out either. I’ve thought about what it would be like to walk into a church again as a serious christian and what it would take for me to do that. In religion class they told us that people go back to it when they have children of their own and I can sort of see why. Most organized religions have a value system of right and wrong that I believe strongly in… I’m just not sure that I need a structured church to teach my (potential) future children how to treat other people. Part of me would like to believe that I can impart that value system to them on my own. Then again, as BF says, take them to church so they have something other than us to rebel against!
I don’t know what the answer is, but I’m pretty sure you can’t make it a universal one. Everyone has to figure this one out for themselves. Seriously, Dude. Whatever. Just be yourself and be happy.
It’s always interesting how differently culture is in the different place people live even in America. The place you’re describing seems worlds away from my North East existence. Where I live there are so many different churches and places of worship it would be impossible to decipher if someone is religious or not just by looking at them and more so I don’t think anyone cares what anyone else does.
That aside I left the church rather early…when I was 15. It was a personal decision which I might blog more about one day. Anyway, I do come from a religious family, my mom is a pastor and her entire family is deeply embedded in church. I think the fact that me and most of my siblings aren’t religious is still a big deal for them.
I always said that I wouldn’t take my children to church. I would teach them how to be good people and leave the whole organized religion thing out of it. Recently though I have begun to think that maybe part of the moral code that I have (loose as it is) may be because of going to church. Learning how to love other people no matter what, honesty, doing things for other people just to brighten their day. I think that may be because of bible stories and the morals behind them I heard growing up.
So I think it might be good for children to get that even if they end up not believing in that particular religion or perhaps if there is a god who exists like they say he does. I think it will still build the foundation for them to be good people.
So it’s something I am on the fence about also. (Sorry to write my own novel here in your comments.)
The problem I see is when religion begins to make people think less of other people or when they begin to judge other people. (Even though the bible says to leave the judging up to god we all know that is one portion of the bible many choose to ignore. I can’t tell you how many times I have been condemned to hell by church members. Glad to hear they have that authority. Also such as the parents who won’t let your children play with your children because you don’t go to church. It’s just ridiculous.)
I don’t know if any of what I just wrote makes sense or has a point. In my defense I haven’t had any caffeine yet today and I only got 4 hours of sleep last night.
I’m glad you were able to post this though. It’s good to be able to get your feelings out about the bigger topics even if you’re worried what other people might say.
well said
AWESOME! I love it. I hate it when people try to force their beliefs on other people (whatever their beliefs may be.) It’s ridiculous to try to fit every person in the world in the same kind of box. And I think, in a way, we are all fence sitters to one degree or another. Some people are just more open about it. And I admire anyone for taking a stand and owning who they are, even if it is on a fence.
there’s nothing wrong with being open minded. and you, loralee, are one of the most open minded people i know. that, of course, is what i love about you! :)
Loralee, you are such a beautiful person and I so appreciate you putting this out there. I identify with you on so many levels with this. I also really liked that you brought up the idea that it’s not purely waffling that makes a person a fence-sitter, but being an empathetic and caring person can also make you more receptive to both sides of an argument. I think you’re doing a great job with raising your family and it will just make them more well-rounded adults.
Being less active in the church (we go on sprees), but being raised LDS, I have a lot of guilt. I think that guilt is the big pull for us LDS. So many of us have issues with the church, and so much of it is just as you said- they are really just issues within ourselves that we need to work on. Until we are determined to do one thing or the other, it can be a difficult and emotional ride.
You are a brave woman for putting this out there, and being a large LDS woman (even with the lost weight) I will stomp anyone’s ass who sends you nasty e-mails- if you would like. Don’t hate, people- appreciate!
Good for you! While I completely understand the whole Utah Mormon culture and feel you pain, it is like that with any religion, as you said. Having spent junior high, high school, college, and a few years after college in Utah as a non-mormon, it is hard to live there when you are different. I had people shocked to find out I wasn’t mormon because and I quote exactly “You are so good!” I didn’t drink in high school, was honor roll student, didn’t get into trouble, so I must be mormon, right? hahahaha.
Anyway, I say that because I think it is great you can see both sides and are respecting your children’s beliefs, yet showing them that other beliefs are just as wonderful and should be respected. More people need to teach their children to live that way!
LL,
Good for you!
There is such a disconnect between following God and following a religion. Religion is mans attempt at pleasing God. At best it leads to love. At worst it leads to murder.
I believe God is Love. God is not religion. And I might add that God is not for one religion over the other. God is for people, period. All of them! He sent a man to tell us that 2000 years ago and religion killed him.
You my dear have been more Christ like sitting on the fence and living love than anyone telling you how you SHOULD live.
You can’t hide truth and you can’t fake love and you are full of both LL. The way I see it, you are full of God.
And isn’t that the point?
No judgement intended. I just pegged you as being all the way out, ya know?
Right on Loralee, this is probably one of the best post in awhile that you have really gone all out with. Talking about religion is such a controversial thing to talk about.
Kudos. I believe in a higher power and I don’t need a church to tell me about it. As I told my grandmother before she died and right after I got out of the hospital after my cancer I told her that being outside was my church, that I don’t need to go to a place or building to get close to a higher power, whether it be god, Buddha, whom or whatever. Thanks for putting that post out. My grandmother didn’t really like me saying that, and after that I was not the favorite grandson anymore, but it had to be said.
From someone who had to fight to find the freedom and peace that lies in being where you are (or more closely, the “Dude, whatever, just be happy” place) I think you are doing one of the very best things a parent can do for their children. Awesome, and thank you. :)
From one fence sitter to another, you’re awesome. Regardless of my own confusion, I felt that it was imperative that my daughter know the comfort faith can give.
I haven’t read what everyone else has said (I will have to come back, as I’m interested and I have a foot-tapping husband waiting as I type this HANG ON).
I’m not too terribly thrilled with organized religion lately – but I do want Faith to grow up in church and have that experience. I do believe in God and I hope we can find a church we like.
Aside from all of that – religion is super personal.. and whatever you decide to do is YOUR decision. Who cares what anyone else thinks? You decide what is best for your children.
Personally, I think spending Sunday going to church as a family is a really good thing.. there are worse things kids could be doing, than praising the Lord.
You know what to do for your family. You’re an awesome mom and anyone who tries to push their attitude on you or fill you with guilt needs to step off, as the Lord doesn’t want people by force.
Okay, I am being dragged away.
Good for you for being so open minded. I think the state of Utah in general really polarizes people as either “members” or “non members”, and there is so much gray area out there!
I agree we shouldn’t “tolerate” people, we should accept and appreciate people the way they are. I hope I can teach my children that principle, I hope I can continue to cultivate it in myself.
People like to say that world is black and white- right and wrong…but really Many many partials of white and black together help to create black and white. The pixels are varying shades of gray- as is life.
Great post!
lo!
thanks for standing up for us coffee-drinking, smoking sinners! we are people too and i appreciate your pointing that out.
my kids go to church most sundays with paul’s parents. they enjoy it…their friends are there and they get treats during sacrament. what a great deal, eh?
Big step, my dear. I’m proud of you. :-)
Oh, my sweet dear beautiful redhead. Hop up here with me, on my fence, kay? Okay. First of all, hey. Whatever. be yourself and be happy.
Second of all, I know little about the Mormon faith. Okay all I know is what I read in Under the Banner of Heaven. So, thats that.
What I do know is that I think its great that you let them go with their grand parents. It IS good to give them a basis of faith.
I go to church every ish Sunday. My husband does not. He is not at all religious and that is hard, so I get you. But, everyone needs a foundation. And, what better foundation that Christ? They will make their own choices. Thats all we can do as parents is help our kids make good choices. We cant choose for them.
AND, last I knew? God loves everybody. Even coffee drinkers. And, fence sitters.
Im not sure how He feels about Britney Spears, though…
You make a good point about people being able to deduce your religion here by looking at you. That has been one of the biggest changes for me. MacKenzie has some funny sub teaching stories about the shock kids express when they see her coffee mug.
If my parents went to church I would totally let them take my kids… I also have a few friends that I would probably let take my kids too.
Not my husbands parents though. Never.
If my kids really wanted to go and asked me I would probably take them myself. Just so they could see what it was like. Living where I do, in the city, it really isn’t a problem. My kids have friends that go to church, and friends that don’t. Where I grew up, in the country, it was a different story altogether. You either went, or you were considered a sinner.
I am apparently still a sinner. /wink I am just lucky you guys still all love me. Or at least I hope you do. /sigh
Anyways, I think religion is great. Everyone needs a base for their morals standards. I still don’t know what I am going to do about my kids. I guess I am up there with you… kind of… hanging on without falling off. /smile
I can understand where you are coming from on mainy points. I am a return missionary, married in the temple and all that stuff. I work in an environment not suited for most people and have found ways to cope with the stress and crap that happens.
One habbit I have picked up on is chewing tobbaco and for the last 2 years I have gone to church on and off. The problem with this is that my family thinks that this lack of church activity is do to my chewing and that I have lost faith. Another factor into is I have an autistic son who cant just sit down for 3 hours, i mostly work the night before so I run home get the hastle of getting everyone ready just to sit in the halls of the church and chase my son around just doesn’t seem fun, I could be home sleeping. Its nothing to do with my faith/beliefs I am just burned out with it, I had been going and going until I just finally said enough. I just don’t want to go because I don’t feel like it. My kids still go to church with grandma and her twin neices and loves it.
“just do what makes you happy and the hell with everyone else and their damn opinions “F-em”
Great post! Much empathy here. I’m in the middle of reading 2 interesting books right now: Why I am not a Christian. And God is not Great. I had a pretty hard core Catholic upbringing and am now a pretty solid agnostic. How’s that for fence sitting? :-)
I also think we could have a very long conversation on this topic. Take a deep breath, and find a way to accept yourself for what you believe, and what you are sitting the fence on.